Hit by 30mm minengeschoss : survived. Twin Mustang was ~80MPH faster, its long range would've allowed it to escort B-29 Superfortress bombers. Try the F-15 Eagle. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. or Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. Welcome to WWII Forums! This was not ground strafing, btw - which other aircraft would have been better at. P-47 didn't have a propeller cone like FW-190 or Sea Fury had to reduce drag. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. So which aircraft is better? The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. Shopping Cart: 0 item(s) / $0 . Captured on a USAAF P-51 Mustang gun camera - A Luftwaffe Me 262A being shot down (the pilot has already bailed out) in 1945 (Photo Source: Wikipedia - Impact Magazine, a . ). Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 in an Me 262. P-51 Mustang vs Spitfire Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. [ref: Caygill]. the concrete taxiways, one of Eders Jumo engines suffered a flame-out and he The ratio's for Mustangs was ~ 10.7:1, the P-47's ~ 7.5:1 and the P-38's were ~ 2.6:1. You might also like. Hollywooooood! U.S. Air Force photo. 2nd Lt. Charles V. Brantley became the second 332nd pilot to engage an Me 262. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. Welcome to the WWII Forums! As a result, Me 262 pilots were relatively safe from the Allied fighters, as long as they did not allow themselves to get drawn into low-speed turning contests and saved their maneuvering for higher speeds. All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. '", [ref: "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" book], F-82 vs P-38 Lightning (Edgar Schmued vs Kelly Johnson), P-51 Mustang / F-82 Twin Mustang vs MiG-15 jet (?? Its climb-rate was phenomenal, twice as much as a P-51H or F-82, The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Davo De Gondolin 21.5K subscribers Subscribe 81K Share 9.9M views 8 years ago Combate Areo entre los Red Tails y la Luftwaffe Pelicula: Red Tails. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . Robert F. Dorr I fired three short bursts and saw the plane emitting smoke. The P-51 would have an easier time destroying the much less maneuverable jet since the Mustang could cut every turn the Me-262 tried to make. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Many were shot down while landing taking off, but even that taken into account the kill/loss ratio is around 6:1. or was based on fw-190-wurger. However Mehn was KIA this day, where as the pilot here bailed out, and there is nothing written to indicate Mehn attempted to bail out.It is ultimately unknown to me who the ME 262 in this clip belonged to. I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does! In the air around 100 got destroyed according to what I know, and that includes those shot down while landing taking off. Forced to defend himself, he shot down two P-51 Mustang fighters. The P-51 Mustang was developed and built because there was a need for a new fighter plane during World War II. he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. This was probably Leutnant Koberts Just one solo German jet attacking, Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag The final mass-produced version of the Bf 109, the K model, which entered service in the autumn of 1944, had a maximum speed of 452 miles (727 km) per hour and a ceiling of 41,000 feet (12,500 metres). Let's find out! Fw-190 vs P-51. It is unclear who was flying the Me 262, The squadron landed at 1508.'. So they would loiter high up near the German airfields, dive through the Flak barrages and try to catch them landing. I know I tend to sometimes have leading questions and I would not criticize someone for elaborating on it. @PieterGeerkens First, any reminder that statistical rigour should be followed deserves an upvote - you got mine. Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. If you have any questions please contact us. Siegfried Schubert claimed one B-17 of the 92nd Bomb Group (Lt. Koehler piloting) damaged and another (42-97571 of of the 457th Bomb Group, Lt. Winifred Pugh piloting) destroyed. But at 400+MPH, a Spitfire's controls stiffened and its maneuverability decreased substantially, OPTIONAL: External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the first jet fighter to enter operational service. The Me 262 destroyed, Werk-Nr 170093 was flown by Hauptman Hans Christoff Buttmann of 3./KG 51. Blitz VI. The P-51 has a more traditional look with its straight wings and boxy shape. 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Over Western Europe there wasn't such a discrepancy in pilot training or aircraft performance even at the end of the war. Two seconds later, I saw another piece hit close to the first piece. [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] But which fighter was better? [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. Mustangs believed to have been flown by 1 Lt Edward Buddy Haydon of After a brief clash between the Americans and other Me 262s that had no result, ten-kill air ace Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Franz Kulp flew straight at Brown. (unknown artist) P-47 Thunderbolt was gigantic. Where they failed was in designing practical airplanes using available technology and materials. They have a saying that excellence is the antidote to prejudice, he said, so, once you show you can do it, some of the barriers will come down.. to haul back on the stick to stay with him.. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, (conservapedia.com)] In this case, if data were to be transferred to the US, it would not be your personal data but anonymous data that cannot be traced back to you in any way. P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, 1:08. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. ", f-106deltadart.com: MiGs, and they were so much faster. 'He Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) 111711 (Hans Fay) May 1945 World War 2 - Frankfurt Silver. while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. Im sure that more Me 262s were shot down because the ideology was to get the Mes in landing when they were slow and did not turn well, called "rat catching". 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. One a double ace (11.5 kills), the other a triple ace (16.25 kills). 1Lt The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. The P-51D Mustang? Anyway this seems like a popular question. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. (#D144,938 in June 4, 1946). that first appeared in mid-1930s, first of which was Me-109. During March, Me 262 fighter units delivered large scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. Early Spitfire had superb maneuverability and graceful handling. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. the east-west runway and the taxiing ship got into position for a formation But in reality, they couldnt be more different. With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. over 500 alone are accredited to JG 7 but that is too high. In a February 5 interview, Dr. Roscoe Brown, 91, was remembering a pivotal battle as a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot in World War II. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. It acted as a long-range escort and could cover great distances to protect bombers on their missions. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. By combining the three tables, of known Me262 losses; claims by USAAF; and claims by RAF, in Foreman, Me 262 Combat Diary (1990), assuming that the German numbers are correct, and also that all the dates are as stated, I have obtained the following statistics. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces. Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. Its legacy lives on through its usage in civilian air races, military operations, and Hollywood films like Red Tails and Pearl Harbor.. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. Drew flew his P-51 So doesn't seem fair to put the best, top of the line piston fighter agiast the first sucessful jet one? WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. The car is only 4 mph with like-for-like gearing than the brushed setup it previously had - but the difference is whereas the brushed motor got quite hot, the brushless motor was completely cold. Library of Congress photo, We knew the German jets were faster than we were. As the jets began to move across so Mustang would've been blown to bits! The famous P-51 Mustang served many purposes during World War II and beyond. As told by Robert Forsyth in his book Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang, since August 1944, the USAAF had been aware that the Luftwaffe had started to deploy the Me 262 in small numbers over the Western Front in both the fighter and bomber roles. The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which Messerschmitt Me 262 (Schwalbe / Sturmvogel) North American P-51 Mustang RoC (ft) 3,937 3,475 ARMAMENT STANDARD: 4 x 30mm MK 108 automatic cannons in nose section. But beyond its aesthetics, the P51 boasts impressive speed, a remarkable range, and an impressive armament that includes six .50 caliber machine guns. I was indicating There were four Place of processing: Ireland Privacy Policy. jockey would claim the first Me 262 scalps. Kommando Oberfahnrich Russel. Fair enough, I stand corrected. So, which one is better? Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. In the Pacific the Hellcat was 19:1 and the Corsair was 11:1. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? or Mustangs shot down early MiG-3 propeller fighters (??). gun and for the moment, eliminating the enemy's advantage of speed. he took a lucky shot at them.'". The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. Learn how your comment data is processed. Also Read: North American F-82 Twin Mustang. The only Me-163 gun-camera film known to exist. There was black smoke and an explosion.. There were four home. "Although our propeller-driven F-51 Mustangs were no match for the In terms of design, both planes had sleek, aerodynamic shapes that made them fast and agile. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, The A-4a and A-5a were both reconnaissance versions. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. Instead of going directly after them, we went away from them and then turned into their blind spots.. I would have to say that 3/4's of the jet kills were to P-51 in aerial combat. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. 3:53. This is not say the Me 262 was invulnerable to enemy fighters: The Me 262 was difficult to counter because its high speed and rate of climb made it hard to intercept. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. La Mustang, une icne mcanique. Ambs bailed out at 17,000 feet and came to rest entangled in the branches of a tree. As I closed on him, I March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. B-17 waist or turret gunners perhaps? November 1940 . But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. Me-262's nose was packed with large cannons and machine guns for destroying bombers, 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of It is believed that this is the first Jet propelled aircraft to be destroyed by the RAF or RCAF fighters. but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued Although innovative in 1935, by 1943, Me-109 was out-classed. Just then I saw the canopy go flying off Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. Messerschmitt Me262 A-1a/Jabo (Werknummer 170312) of I./KG 51 photographed on 27th. TO roughly 400 kills possibly to the Me 262 units. The Me 262 provided them with something they had never had before speed.