When it was all delivered, Saint Peters had what amounted to a stone quarry in their back yard, together with thirty tons of steel beams, sixty-five oak doors, and all the other innumerable items concomitant with the wrecking of a sixty-five room house. But in fact, it's not unusual for rural communities like old Negleytown to have had their own burial grounds. Yet she believed strongly in the preservation of her childhood home, Clayton, and left it to the public in her will. Thomas Mellon assures us in his memoir chapter entitled "Courtship and Marriage" that Sarah Jane's attitude was not born of coquetry. Send Report . jubilated a practical minded committee, upon learning that all they surveyed could be theirs merely for the cost of hauling it away! I was afraid to even gaze at a gaudy Tiffany mantle clock for too long for fear my stare alone would cause it to fall to the floor and shatter. 175 Years Later, The Mellons Have Never Been Richer. Sarah Jane didn't make a marriage of passion. Over the course of his life, James Mellon became a successful businessman, banker, and philanthropist, The ceiling of the house is in a poor state, along with a dated interior. The line history becomes attainable couldnt be more true. It was a stones throw from the current Pittsburgh Center for the Arts on Fifth Ave. Here's a link to a pic. Drs. But because Andrew Mellon deliberately disassociated his name from that institution he created (unlike Frick and Carnegie, who kept their names connected to their philanthropic cultural efforts), the nation's wonderful museum is not commonly associated with the Mellon legacy. Yet, without the family being in apparent financial strife, the home was torn down in 1941. The church is located along the Allegheny River and is approximately 25 mi (40 km) north-east of the city of Pittsburgh within the Diocese of Greensburg. Mellon Park, established in 1943, was once part of the estate of Richard B. Mellon, owner of the largest mansion in the city. Thomas got back to work quickly after their honeymoon. The chandeliers once graced a 1930s-era Los Angeles theater. The splendor of the Gilded Age couldnt last forever. Mrs. Mellon was born in the old Negley mansion at Stanton and Negley avenues on February 3, 1817, the homestead being torn down only a few years ago. Mellon has been recognized as one of the most important private benefactors of environmental causes, achieving his significant stature quietly and humbly. She was 'finished' at the Edgeworth Ladies' Boarding School in Braddock, where she benefited from an exceptionally well-rounded education in addition to polishing the necessary social skills for a woman of her position. It's all about ME. Multimillionaire Richard B. Mellon and his brother Andrew had a game of Tag going. Eagel Rock is one of my favorite Gilded Age mansions, and I hate having to write that it no longer exists. I'd pretend that each carefully landscaped section was a room in my make-believe mansion, then I'd hop-scotch around on the groovy terrazzo paving (reportedly those designs came from a suggestion by Sarah Mellon Scaife) and fantasize about climbing the magical cascading fountain. Postcard of bridge spanning Lake Bouquet leading to Flower Island at Idlewild Park. Richard B. Mellon. She had to, if this anecdote from William Larimer Mellon describing his involvement in ".a parasitical business based on selling the produce of my grandparents' country place" is any indication of what life was like in household filled with entrepreneurially enterprising men and boys: It's tempting to think that through all the bustle of testosterone-driven family life, Sarah Jane remained vastly competent, cool, and collected -- if also emotionally detached and You couldn't live in Pittsburgh without knowing that. After her death, James continued to spend each winter in Palatka. She didn't design or fund the building of mansions or imposing buildings. It was erected to house the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research. His farm, Fertile Bottom, extended along the Allegheny River up over most of what is now Highland Park and the city reservoirs. But that's probably as she would have liked it. Architecture of the MI Building. Here, I thought, perhaps here is something I can actually relate to. Privately produced photograph album to mark the occasion of the marriage of Sarah Mellon (1903-1965) and Alan Scaife (1900-1958). View Details. It likely knew the tread of Sarah Jane's feet when she 'Eager to establish himself before getting married, James Mellon returned home to lease the Osceola Coal Works from his father,' added Abandoned Southeast. The specifics of Sarah Mellon and Alan Scaife's extravagant 1927 wedding still leave readers slack-jawed in amazement. I can now extemporaneously follow various Mellon lineages, dissect Mellon accomplishments and scandals, and marvel at how this one family has disseminated its reputed $12 billion wealth and influence. In 1957 . We know from published family accounts that one scrapbook contained images of presidential log cabins. The rest of the Mellon entry describes two of her daughters-in-law. Janet Zweig, an artist chosen by the project team, turned the floor of the garden into an exact replica of the sky in Pittsburgh on the day Ann was born. By the age of 21, James and his brother Thomas Jr. had raised over $100,000 operating a nursery, lumber yard, and construction supply business, Old tennis rackets, books and an abandoned box left in the house, along with a map and a US flag. The education and supervision of chores for their five surviving boys seems to have been left to Thomas's oversight. I think this is a very important thing to consider when people try and tear down historic sites. In 1929, Mellon hired landscape architects Vitale and Geiffert to develop the Walled Garden of his estate grounds. In 1911 the architectural firm of Alden and Harlow designed the terraced gardens just below the mansion. Lavish Splendor Marks Brilliant Mellon Nuptials, Pittsburgh Remembers Andrew Carnegie, The Great Showman, Rollin' on the River: Pittsburgh Shanty Boat Life, Forgotten History: Father James Renshaw Cox, Quiet, pleasant and self-possessed: Sarah Jane Negley Mellon. "I have been active in horticulture for years, flora of all kinds," he wrote in his. During World War II, the current Catholic Church building was built by hand by parish members using materials from the dismantled Richard B. Mellon mansion in Pittsburgh. Keep in mind that the Fricks primary residence at the time, Clayton, had a mere 23 rooms (in comparison). Things were looking up, especially since ".my The mansion was built by Italian immigrants from New Kensington, PA, under the direction of Monsignor Nicola Fusco. Insulated by innocent pleasure, I was grateful to them for that. Biography . She didn't seem to collect much beyond platitudes, trivia and memories in her scrapbooks -- nothing like the grand homes or art that her offspring would acquire. ', During their years in Florida the Mellons were very involved in the community and supported the education system. If we are to take the singular monument in the middle of a city park as testimony to anything, it's this: connections mattered to Sarah Jane Negley Mellon. Richard Beatty Mellon (March 19, 1858 - December 1933), sometimes R.B., was a banker, industrialist, and philanthropist from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (adjusted wealth $103 billion). Built in 1910, it included a bowling alley and carriage house. managed to slide under the media radar. He has served as a Trustee of both Foundations since 2005. But the chapter is all about their itinerary, not their intimacy. In the absence of access to such cherished family material, Sarah Jane must remain aloof and ultimately unknowable to history while her husband Thomas commands center stage. To honour her memory, he built the Larimer Memorial Library (now Larimer Arts Center) and donated it to the city. [1], The Walled Garden is surrounded by walls of brick and limestone and is one of Gothic design. Biography [ edit] He and his brother Andrew Mellon, sons of Judge Thomas Mellon, were frequent business partners. Being quiet, pleasant, and self-possessed would do. This game of Tag lasted for nearly seven decades. This was a woman who had the means to do anything she wanted, and then some. Richard Mellon Scaife, the Pittsburgh philanthropist and reclusive heir to the Mellon banking fortune, whose support for right-wing causes laid the foundations for America's modern. Sarah Cordelia Mellon was born on December 2, 1903, the only daughter of Richard Beatty and Jennie King Mellon. Part of the Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday & Metro Media Group. The park was established in 1943, on the grounds of the former estate of Richard B. Mellon. His grandfather Andrew W. Mellon (1855-1937) was worth around $350 million at the time of his death. A bare mattress on the floor also suggests that someone may be squatting in the building. Height: 115.5 in (293.37 cm) Width: 13 in (33.02 cm) Depth: 2 in (5.08 cm) I have to suspect that the Mellons' history is not well known because they like it that way. The Romanesque-style church was completed in 1944, using many items from the Richard B. Mellon mansion, which was in what is now Mellon Park in Shadyside and was torn down in 1941. I don't know how Sarah Jane would regard the checkered reputations of her descendants, but I certainly think she was proud of her own past. The site, part of a 14-acre parcel of land known as Frick Acres, was donated to the University by Andrew W. Mellon and his brother, Richard B. Mellon. Her father, Jacob Negley, was a surveyor and mechanical engineer. facebook; twitter; googleplus; You can't mine coal without machine guns. By the end of the century, the Mellon Bank was the largest banking institution in the country outside of New York, An old piano left at the home. Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mellon_Park&oldid=1138195611, Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation Historic Landmarks, National Register of Historic Places in Pittsburgh, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 8 February 2023, at 14:16. Facing Shady Avenue is the Tudor revival house once home to the Scaife family and donated in 1943. The son of Richard B. Mellon, nephew of Andrew W. Mellon, and grandson of Thomas Mellon, he and his sister Sarah Mellon Scaife and cousins Paul Mellon and Ailsa Mellon-Bruce, were heirs to the Mellon fortune, which included major holdings in Mellon Bank, Gulf Oil, and Alcoa. And even fewer managed to hold onto their money and influence the way the Mellons have. It is sad to know there are buildings and pieces of history we will never see. Witness, for example, the obsession of Sarah's son Richard Mellon Scaife with the Clinton family, which went on for decades. He dropped out of school in the ninth grade but earned a GED and, eventually, master's degrees from two prestigious universities. James and wife Rachael first came to Florida in the early 1880s, to get away from the frigid winters in Pennsylvania. The land surrounding the mansion was donated to the city of Pittsburgh and now serves as Mellon Park. You become very aware of how gangly and awkward the human body is when you're surrounded by priceless artifacts. Mellon's mansion was at the time the largest in Pittsburgh and was built in 1910. She'd buy me a raisin-filled cookie from the Jenny Lee Bakery just below the square, then let me amuse myself while she had a cigarette. Planning for the MI building began in 1927. The Walking Guide includes: A History of Chatham University Mellon Board Room Eden Hall Farm Campus Chatham Eastside Rachel Carson, Class of 1929 Howe-Childs Gate House . R.B. Mellon Residence in Shadyside Within the East End is Shadyside, a neighborhood in Pittsburgh that boomed in the second half of the 1800s. settlers of the East Liberty Valley. The gates surrounding Eagle Rock were also transported to Clayton and now border the parking lot. Yes!! You can learn of its residents, and how they made established their wealth. The case is often cited in discussions of custody conflicts that result in parental child-napping, and eclipses his many good works, including the, Matthew T. Mellon, Sr., grandson of the eldest of the Mellon sons, obtained a PhD in history and was an American Studies professor at University of Freiburg from 1928-1939. Only the stone gateposts remain from the Mellon home, So it's not a stretch to say that we have the Mellon family money to thank for LSD. In the 1990s, a three-wing conservatory was added to increase his supply of fresh flowers common and exotic. In 2005, Scaife was number 238 on the Forbes 400, with a personal fortune of $1.2 billion. Clearly that house isn't there anymore.". The Mellon Park Project wanted to create a memorial in memory of Ann Katherine Seamans, who frequented the Walled Garden repeatedly after being introduced to it in kindergarten. The Mellon family We find Sarah Jane under the Mellon listing in a chapter entitled "Women of Wealth": There you have it. For me, a childhood of passing familiarity has led to a lifetime of fascination. Other Mellons have became punchline-famous because of their associations with the moral failings and political machinations of characters on the national stage. of astounding history she orchestrated by providing a serene life What did Sarah Jane think of this girl's supposed affinity for the otherworldly? life.". . The ornate tiled pathway leading to the front door and the front garden are both in a state of disrepair, with palm trees leaning to the side. Thomas Mellon pursued his intended via weekly chaperoned visits at the Negley Mansion over six long months. The mansion was built by Italian immigrants from New Kensington, PA under the direction of Monsignor Nicola Fusco. With opalescent glass alone, the panel presents an evocative scene of rippling water, floating lotus flowers, and a footbridge draped with roses. The house in Palatka, Putnam County, Florida was. The Mellon family's enormous wealth was accrued primarily by brothers Andrew William Mellon and Richard B. Mellon during the 1920s and 1930s, investing or founding companies that include Mellon Bank, Alcoa, Standard Steel Car Co., Westinghouse Electric Co. and Gulf Oil. And there was all that fuss about her then-boyfriend former Allegheny County District Attorney Robert W. Duggan: his political scandals, their hasty marriage likely orchestrated to legally avoid being compelled to testify against him during a federal corruption investigation, and questions surrounding his sudden death (accident? [1], R.B. Whither, Sarah? He was the son of Richard Mellon and Jennie King.He passed away in 1970. Perhaps her detachment only went so far. She didn't turn Thomas away, but then again, neither did she encourage him. Murdaugh is heckled as he leaves court, Ken Bruce finishes his 30-year tenure as host of BBC Radio 2, Ukrainian soldier takes out five tanks with Javelin missiles, Family of a 10-month-old baby filmed vaping open up, Missing hiker buried under snow forces arm out to wave to helicopter, Hershey's Canada releases HER for SHE bars featuring a trans activist, Moment teenager crashes into back of lorry after 100mph police race, Do not sell or share my personal information. later write a dry, clinical appraisal of Sarah Jane's charms and their From an early age, Thomas Mellon entrusted his sons with business ventures. He died on December 1, 1933, before the new building was completed. Along with being a successful bank and industrialist, he was a philanthropist like the rest of the Mellon family and deeply invested in his community. The site previously was the location of the mansion of James K. Moorhead, a U.S. When the downtown burial ground, then called Smithfield Street Cemetery, was closed, remains were removed to Troy Hill and not a Highland Park burial ground. Such was the case on Nov. 16, 1927, at the wedding of the daughter of Richard Beatty Mellon who was the niece of Andrew Mellon and the future mother of Richard Mellon Scaife. On July 4, 1944, the church was dedicated. Mellon organized the Citizens' Committee on City Plan, which sought to improve Pittsburgh through better urban planning and zoning. The Mellons built a 6,000-square-foot house on a corner lot in 1883, Old records and a record player left behind at the house. The grand staircase is the altar. Federal law was on "Pross" Mellon's side since the federal kidnapping statute specifically exempted parents. The abandoned remains of a river retreat in north Florida that once belonged to the hugely successful US banking magnate and industrialist James R Mellon, The staircase in the abandoned Mellon river retreat. Their two daughters did not live past infancy, and another son died at age 9. The homes owner made his money through investment in such prosperous industries as oil, coal, and steel. Mellon estate was located on Pittsburgh's Fifth Avenue. Mount Saint Peter Church is a Roman Catholic Church at 100 Freeport Road in New Kensington, Pennsylvania. The rotting remains of a staircase in the winter retreat. By necessity she would have become removed from day-today housework once she and Thomas became pillars of their community and she gravitated to a prominent social role outside the home. There is an area just for children. As a lifelong Pittsburgher there are many elements of the Mellon saga that I never knew, including Sara Jane's story. Honoring family and accomplishments mattered. Carnegie Mellon would not be Carnegie Mellon without their vision, service, and commitment. This family dramatically shaped Pittsburgh's economic and civic character, and its influence extended far beyond the city. As a history-loving adult, I came to understand how ubiquitously present the Mellons were in the development of this city and nation. Even the venerable institutions associated with the family make news when scandal hits. View Details. The home's owner made his money through investment in such prosperous industries as oil, coal, and steel. James R. Mellon was born on January 14, 1846. Mrs. Negley would in fact live out her final days with Thomas and Sarah Jane, bequeathing the bulk of her considerable real estate holdings to Sarah Jane and other descendants (thereby providing the foundation for lucrative Mellon real estate development in the East End). Thomas Mellon warmed up to his new wife, whom he described as taking ".full possession and master of the situation, not the least discouraged through without any company or help." when the couple moved into a rented home downtown. Surviving photos reveals a stolid farmhouse, described as white with green shutters. She traveled little. Avenue. Mellon's personal sense of style was exemplified by a hat-rack made of mirrors and buffalo horns and half a taxidermied buffalo head (yes, half), both of which he kept on display as Their wedding trip made quite an impression on Thomas, though, who states that neither of them had hitherto traveled much (Sarah Jane previously having been on a "boat excursion with some friends" to Louisville). "We can do just that!" Given that few descendants even carry the Mellon name today, genealogical clarity and historical perspective are that much more difficult to achieve. If we know our history, we know who we came from and what was important to them. The Mellon private family archives contain private written material and memorabilia which no doubt shed more light on Sarah Jane's personality -- including the scrapbooks which so infuriated her husband when they were courting. Father Bob Lubik, who coincidentally is an old friend of mine and the wildest priest you will ever meet, has a complete history on the Mount Saint Peter Church in New Kensington on his blog, including this taken from the December 1995 issue of The Barque of Peter: At that time the Mellon mansion, in suburban Pittsburgh, fifteen miles distant, was being razed and its furnishings sold. Was it love at first sight? [4] The $13.3 million in taxes paid on his estate enabled the state to meet its payroll.[5]. The title pages of Sarah's school books were copied by her son James and can be found in the Heinz History collections: Looking back on the day they met in her parents' parlor, Mellon would I think its important for us to stress what the buildings truly stand for and that theyre more than just material, so we can save more buildings from being destroyed. What Pittsburghers do remember about the Mellons are the salacious details. The scene sounds like something out of the Duquesne Club, an exclusive Downtown enclave for Pittsburgh's rich and powerful. James Mellon donated land for the Mellon School, which later became Putnam High School. Mellon estate was located on Pittsburghs Fifth Avenue. came to visit, but it was not her home. Been waiting for this to open, congratulations #MarkHolden of Blend Cigar Bar He died in 2014 aged 82. The Mellon They said: 'The introduction of the railroads into North Florida in the 1880s led to an explosion in the winter tourist trade. While not as significant as the old post office, city hall or the Wabash terminal, it would be really cool if the Richard B. Mellon mansion were still around. On May 7, 1919, at the age of 73, Rachel Mellon passed away upon arriving home to Pittsburgh. Peggy Hitchcock (daughter of Margaret Mellon Hitchcock, a sister of Matthew and Larry mentioned above) was married for a time to 1960s American counterculture leader Walter Howard Bowart, whom she met through mutual friend and former lover Timothy Leary. I sat there stunned anew. Howard Heinz and Richard B. Mellon found the Pittsburgh Parks and Playground Fund - today it is known as the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy Howard Heinz founds the Pittsburgh Planning Association, which today is known as the Southwest Pennsylvania Commission - the region's MPO. We don't know if she longed for a daughter to replace her lost baby girls. By the end of his six months a'wooing, Thomas Mellon no doubt wryly ruminated over the observations of his close friend Richard Beatty, who had passed over Sarah Jane for a younger Negley sister because Sarah was ".too independent for him, had no elasticity in her composition, and did not seem to appreciate gentlemen's attentions." He had a personal fortune of $1.4billion in his lifetime, mostly through inherited wealth. She and her older brother, Richard King Mellon, grew up at their parents' 60-room Fifth Avenue mansion (apparently at the time the largest house in Pittsburgh) in what became the city's wonderful Mellon Park after the house was . Richard Mellon Scaife (pictured right in 1973) the great-nephew of Andrew Mellon and JJames R Mellon. Ten . He was fined and received a suspended sentence for his efforts after providing crucial testimony against some partners. In his memoir, Judge Mellon's Sons, he described how ".every kind of activity associated with a farm, including the slaughtering and dressing of hogs, was regularly carried on there. From Troy Hill, a subsequent closing in 1888 meant the poor souls were re-interred one more time, to the Smithfield East End Cemetery in Squirrel Hill, now maintained by Homewood Cemetery. Best regard from Belgium. Three of our most recent grants are highlighted below. Indeed, there was much here that had ecclesiastical potentialities. . Did he know in an instant that Sarah Jane was "the one of destiny"? In this era when a woman was most known by her husband's [2] There are 150 stars, and each is a light in the ground and includes an inscription about it. He recalled that ".since marriage, the last important event of my life was consummated, and nothing left to distract my attention from business, I could feel that I was fairly settled." her own names on this marker. She devoted herself to church and community. Its amazing how much you can learn from a house. Bedrooms were on the second floor and formal entry, parlor, dining room, study and kitchen occupied the first floor. Source. Biographical Dictionary of American Business Leaders, http://www.mellon.com/aboutmellon/history.html, "R. B. Mellon Dies; Noted Industrial Leader of Nation", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_B._Mellon&oldid=1119087475, This page was last edited on 30 October 2022, at 17:07. The 1994 book Architecture after Richardson reports that the house was torn down in 1941 for no reason that I have found as of yet. His father, Judge Thomas Mellon, was the founder of Mellon Bank and patriarch to the Mellon family of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The four who survived became famous men, two of whom - Andrew W. Mellon - and Richard B. Mellon - attained worldwide fame in banking, business, government, philanthropy and the arts. Yes, THAT Timothy Leary. [7] Along with the tennis courts Mellon Park includes a playground, basketball courts, and baseball fields. The Judge author and descendant James Mellon describes a dark and sturdily decorated Victorian interior. And then there was the Great Depression, the event that eliminated much of the remaining wealth of the Robber Barons. But Sarah Jane's private letters, scrapbooks and travel journal, those few documents we know she left, remain within the control and interpretation of her descendants. Simple theme. The moral of this story is this: Millionaires, don't tear down your 65-room mansions until you give me a chance to walk through them! Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum is housed in the former home of industrial magnate Andrew Carnegie. The comments below have not been moderated. In honor of his civic efforts, the Air and Waste Management Association recognizes individuals who have made administrative, legislative, and judicial contributions to the field of pollution abatement with the Richard Beatty Mellon Award. suicide? These industrious men then built the monumental Mount St. Peter Church in New Kensington, which still stands and functions to this day from the materials of the Mellon Mansion. in Highland Park. Doubtful. By 2013, Scaife had dropped to number 371 . On his deathbed, these were Richard's last words to his brother. Stirred on by patriotism and inspired by a recruitment lecture, the impressionable young man assumed that parental consent for his enlistment would be a given. Richard Mellon Scaife (; July 3, 1932 - July 4, 2014) was an American billionaire, a principal heir to the Mellon banking, oil, and aluminum fortune, and the owner and publisher of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. And an exposed steel beam bears the stamp of the Carnegie Steel Company. But the youngest of his two sons, Seward Prosser Mellon, made headlines in the mid-1970s related to a horrific custody battle with his ex-wife. He was president of the board of trustees of East Liberty Presbyterian Church, James served as president of Western Pennsylvania Hospital and the Allegheny County Juvenile Court Farm. Hunter Biden reveals he dated widowed sister-in-law after a Michael Jackson fan clubs SUE two men who claimed the star America enjoys longest period of uninterrupted growth since Isabel Oakeshott receives 'menacing' message from Matt Hancock, Insane moment river of rocks falls onto Malibu Canyon in CA, Pavement where disabled woman gestured at cyclist before fatal crash, Mom who lost both sons to fentanyl blasts laughing Biden, Pro-Ukrainian drone lands on Russian spy planes exposing location, 'Buster is next!' In addition to diaries and valuable historical documents, the collection includes two hand-written letters from Sarah Jane, plus the title pages from school books that once belonged to each of his parents (see above for Sarah's). Powered by. The controversial then-Lieutenant General Grant had been newly appointed as commander of the Union Army and the Battle of the Wilderness had just concluded, resulting in more than 25,000 casualties. We are no longer accepting comments on this article. Is this really a burial ground? Quiet, pleasant and self-possessed: Sarah Jane Neg What ho, blog writer? Heinz History Center, Allegheny Conference on Community Development Photographs. But neither did he join the Union Army. My family visited Mellon Square, situated mid-way between Kaufmann's and Gimbel's department stores on Smithfield Street, whenever we shopped downtown in the 1970s. And, really, did she miss the Judge while he was gone those five years? 'The various railroad lines poured crowds of tourists into the cities along the St. Johns River, filling hotels to capacity for months. We are officially open today! His was the largest mansion in Pittsburgh. The Foundation has awarded more than 7,700 grants and program-related investments to more than 1,800 organizations since its founding. This isn't an unusual circumstance These lovely statues which grace the Broderie Room at Phipps Conservatory in Oakland once stood in the mansion's gardens. She would "do." Interestingly, though, this home was the only one of the Fricks three residences to be demolished (the other two were preserved as museums). These were removed from the Richard B. Mellon Mansion in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania during WWII. Richard Beatty Mellon's mansion, built in 1910, sat on 11 acres and boasted 65 bedrooms, two large flower gardens, a garage and a carriage house. Despite admonishments from his parents, James didn't come home. Perhaps it did a bit of both.